MK8DX Booster Pass Abbreviations

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Jazzy

8va ~ Going the octave higher
Staff member
Administrator
Amplify Staff
Site Supporter
Founding Member
If we're just starting to label the booster pass retros with its console counterpart then shouldn't we be doing this with all of the other retros? I know the answer would be no because no-one would want that, but it just seems to be a bit strange that we'd just start this now.

Yes and no.

For something like MKLeaderboards, it would make sense to be consistent. Since a lot of people come to sites from MKLeaderboards from outside the community, it's also easier to understand.

For talking in chat, people are still going to call the tracks what they want, which very well may be what they are used to.

But what we are used to doesn't always align with including the prefixes, although it often does. If the goal is to be the "easiest" to remember, understand, and type, this is what makes the argument a bit tougher.

The idea of the prefix can be looked at two ways:
  1. Expected for any track
  2. Expected only when necessary
Realistically, people try to communicate in the most effective way, so it will lean towards 2 for efficiency, but sometimes back to 1 for clarity.

I've seen the "new" Mario Circuit referred to as 'mc8', which is an example of clarity, which is interesting here.

The whole idea of prefixes is also interesting because we frequently use for example 'dsbs' when there is only one SBS.



Ultimately, I'm not even sure this matters much at all. Given that we already refer to several tracks in chat differently than their official abbreviations, and we speak in our own vernacular out loud in call, this proves that it's not necessary for official abbreviations as used in computer software to be the same as how we communicate with each other.

Personally, I heavily lean towards including the console code as a prefix in small lettering on MKLeaderboards, since it doesn't really sacrifice considerable visual space (efficiency) and it is very easy for the average person to understand (clarity).

As for human interactions, this doesn't matter as much. It's nice to provide a recommendation, which i still suggest could be any of the following:
  1. The abbreviation as used in the original game, on its own, but only if there are no conflicts (e.g NH)
  2. A prefix or suffix of the console code in full, with or without a space (Wii CM, CMwii, etc)
  3. A condensed prefix or suffix, with or without a space, as suggested by Vike (64CM, CM64, etc)
  4. For existing tracks, the old abbreviations are fine too.
Any of these could be used in any combination of uppercase and lowercase, it doesn't matter. There may be many that make no sense intuitively, but those would fall out of favor extremely quickly.



For something like Toadbot, it's best to accept any of the above options, and be flexible, not dogmatic.

With all these options, I think that will be enough for the community to decide what they prefer out of social habit.

If somehow there is something extremely inconvenient, some other abbreviation will naturally catch on. If it's not too inconvenient, it's probably not an issue.

If the whole scheme as outlined in the above 4 suggestions somehow is so bad, we can revisit, but i personally doubt anyone would find it that bad with the amount of options.

For a computer program or site that displays track names, I think it's up to the developers here, and same with what inputs it can accept. Naturally a developer would want to make it as usable as possible (for example by accepting multiple possible inputs) so this is good imo.

Ultimately, the utility of having a single specific abbreviation is less than I think we take it to be. With the options listed above, I think in some cases there will be no difficulty in understanding each other regardless of the option you choose, and where there is, you can choose a different option. If somehow it is still not clear (which I find hard to see), then we'll find a solution.



Personally I find the Vike's idea of condensed console names as a bit tough to naturally catch onto. From a learning standpoint, I have to first remember which game the original track is from (I actually have it easier since I own all the games up until 8d), then convert it to something shorter, and finally tack on the actual "root" abbreviation.

Optimally we only have to do the last step (root abbreviation) if we can get away with it. After that it's up to the community to do what they feel is easiest.

I do want to ask where it's actually necessary or provides a substantial benefit to all agree on a single abbreviation. I don't see anywhere personally, since it's just about a way to understand each other, so I don't think it's too important to resolve this beyond some recommendations and let people figure it out from there.

And that's as far as we need to go here imo. This is just a situation where there is no specific solution that gets everything right, so allowing flexibility is what I consider the golden mean here.
 

Jazzy

8va ~ Going the octave higher
Staff member
Administrator
Amplify Staff
Site Supporter
Founding Member
For those that don't agree with my philosophy on allowing flexibility, I'm willing to give a definite proposal a shot:

Default to 'b' prefix.

e.g bPP, bTC

In case of a conflict, use a suffix:

CMw (Wii Coconut Mall)
CM64 (N64 Choco Mountain)

Other examples:

MC1s (SNES/SFC Mario Circuit 1)
BC3a (Game Boy Advance, also the Japanese title, Mario Kart Advance)
RRg (GCN Rainbow Road)
BCd (DS Bowser's Castle)
bRRd (DS Rainbow Road) - use the prefix in cases like these to make it clear it's not rRRd
RR7 (MK7)
BBt (MKTour Berlin Byways)



Personally I would use either a suffix or prefix, but not both, unless it makes it more confusing, like bRRd above (we may not have to ever do this, we'll see). If there's no conflict with another game, use the prefix 'b'. If there's a conflict, don't use b, but use the game suffix.

I won't kill myself if you all want to always use 'b' when there is a conflict like CMw / CM64, but I question its necessity here.

(Edit: It might be nice to do so simply for consistency when displaying them, say, on a website. For example, bCMw and bCM64 might look better with all the other b's on the list. For stuff like Toadbot, or general conversation, both should be acceptable.)


For clarity, the proposed suffixes are as follows:

  • SNES - s
  • N64 - 64
  • GBA - a
  • GCN - g
  • DS - d
  • Wii - w
  • MK7 - 7
  • MKTour - t

I'm hoping we can go from here by considering the possibility of single letter suffixes for games (as opposed to prefixes).
 
Last edited:

Italic

Member
Founding Member
if we're doing that suffix thing we could theoretically retroactively apply it to every track in the game which would be hilarious to try and remember

anyways I like the idea of using b when needed and the suffixes, makes it the most distinguishable out of all the suggestions without having to use the spacebar for no reason
 

Jazzy

8va ~ Going the octave higher
Staff member
Administrator
Amplify Staff
Site Supporter
Founding Member
if we're doing that suffix thing we could theoretically retroactively apply it to every track in the game which would be hilarious to try and remember

We don't need to, since there are no conflicts which would require it.

rRRy and rRRd do not need the suffix since it would make no difference (both N64, and they were the same way in MK64)
dRiR could be dRRa and dRR be dRRs, but to be clear that was not the intent of the proposal. The abbreviation should be the same as in the original game (with the addition of a b), just as RiR was in the original game. The suffix should only be used when (a) the exact same abbreviation is used in two tracks in multiple games, and (b) both tracks appear as Booster DLC and thus have a 'b' prefix.
 

amber_cxc

New member
Hi, speedrun mod here, just wanted to give my thoughts. Vike already shared some of it on the previous page.

My take mostly centers around the idea that we can be expected to remember some things, but to minimize irrelevance.

So to quickly go over the points:
- b is a good prefix that should be used for all 48 tracks.
- bBC / bLM are completely fine. if people get weird about it, tell them to grow up and move on. ban quickly. don't tolerate that garbage.
- we should not use multiple prefixes and we shouldn't have some not using b. that's just more confusing.
- when multiple tracks share an abbreviation, then we add letters. we should have to put as little extra work as possible into remembering these.
- for tracks that don't have the same name, we should add letters that clarify the track name. CMo and CMa are perfect.
- for tracks that do share the same name (RR/BC), we should add letters that clarify the game it comes from.
my suggestion for game clarity is as follows, using Rainbow Road:
bSRR (obv we have (dRR/dRaR/dRRd/dSRR) already (yeah idk there's a lot of ways to type that one))
bRR64 (obv we have rRRd already)
bRRsc
bRRdd
bRRds
bRRw
bRR7
bRRt (there's no tour tracks that share names with other tracks afaik, but just in case)

side thoughts:
- don't change current abbreviations
- rRRd and rRRy are both great
- dRiR for ribbon is great
- the four different ways i've seen snes rr typed out is not fantastic but ultimately fine
- i don't know what game some of the already-existing retro tracks come from, and i don't think we should be expected to know that unless it's necessary to clarify what track in mk8 we're talking about - because we (generally) are only talking about mk8, anyways.
 

Tyler

Member
Site Supporter
Founding Member
We, as a community, absolutely CANNOT use the "b" abbreviation for booster pack tracks. Not only is B my 22nd favourite letter in the alphabet (only narrowly edging out Z, D, Y, and R) but it is a letter that would bring about a number of issues if used as a prefix for track abbreviations.

Aside from the obvious, let's look at a number of tracks that would not mesh well with such a prefix.

bMW (Maka Wuhu) - BMW - a commonly used abbreviation for Bulgarian Mud Wrasslin', but in this case short for Bartholomew's Motor Works - is a famous car manufacturer who just so happens to have a lot of beef with Mercedez-Benz in real life. If bMW came to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Nintendo could lose their business partnership with Mercedez-Benz and maybe even have the karts removed from the game.

bTC (Toad Circuit) - Imagine you just got the world record on Toad Circuit, you tweet out "new bTC wr!!!" only to find a bunch of people you've never met before with monkey profile pictures replying to you. What the heck is going on? Well, those silly little monkeys think you're tweeting about BitCoin (also abbreviated as BTC) and they will not pass up an opportunity to discuss cryptocurrency. Trust me, you don't want these people in your twitter mentions, we're going to need to find something else to call it.

bBW (Banshee Boardwalk) - I shouldn't have to explain this one. We DO NOT want the younger members of the community googling the Banshee Boardwalk world record only to come across something entirely different.

bWP (Waluigi Pinball) - Old Mario Kart Wii clan I'd rather not be reminded of.

bLT (Luigi Circuit) - Sandwich with bacon lettuce and tomato.
 

Jazzy

8va ~ Going the octave higher
Staff member
Administrator
Amplify Staff
Site Supporter
Founding Member
- for tracks that don't have the same name, we should add letters that clarify the track name. CMo and CMa are perfect.
- for tracks that do share the same name (RR/BC), we should add letters that clarify the game it comes from.
I prefer having the same rule that handles tracks that are ambiguous rather than two cases.

But also, in this case 'o' and 'a' look (from a format perspective) the same as a suffix but they are part of a word, not an additional suffix.

It's best not to have two rules when one will suffice.

CMw and CM64 are technically more to type than CMo and CMa, but I don't think that's a bad thing if we're sacrificing consistency using the latter. It's worth pointing out that the latter also changes the original abbreviations of the actual track names (in a way there is more than one option), while my suggestion provides a definitive answer we don't have to debate.

bSRR (obv we have (dRR/dRaR/dRRd/dSRR) already (yeah idk there's a lot of ways to type that one))
bRR64 (obv we have rRRd already)
bRRsc
bRRdd
bRRds
bRRw
bRR7
bRRt (there's no tour tracks that share names with other tracks afaik, but just in case)

To be honest, the first is the worst of all of them, since it's the only one that uses the 'S' (not a suffix, but a discriminator) in between the 'b' and 'RR'.
Also, RaR and RRd have never been used for SNES RR. RaR is occasionally used for GBA Rainbow Road and really only one person actively advocates for its use over RR (and is probably aware it's a little bit of a meme now).

I don't really like having two letter suffixes where unnecessarily. In theory this could result in 6-character abbreviations (bBC1sc) when we can realistically get away with 5 as an absolute max (bBC1a, bCM64, etc). Perhaps they are easier to remember, so there may be an argument there that it is simply taste.

For rainbow road, I proposed the following earlier:

bRRs
bRR64 (not needed)
bRRa
bRRg
bRRd
bRRw
bRR7
bRRt

These are mostly the same as your suggestion: 64, w, 7, and t are identical, and s varies only in placement and casing.

The question is whether sc, ds, and dd are any good here. I would argue that 'sc' is little worse than 'a' for GBA. The people who benefit most from the abbreviations are Japanese people (as Vike has pointed out), because their language is the most distanced from the rest of us. But in Japan, the game is known as MKA (MK Advance), not MKSC. And since we're usually using the console to determine the prefix, 'a' is more consistent and applies to anyone equally.

And since we're usually using the console to determine the prefix
And as for 7 and t, '3' doesn't really make sense compared to 7 here, and 't' could be 'm' for mobile, but it's not as intuitive either, and Nintendo even uses Tour for the prefix in game.

So I have stated my view but I will leave the following questions open:
  1. Do we use console suffixes or added letters for cases like bCM? (bCMo / bCMa, vs bCM64 / bCMw)
  2. GBA: 'a' or 'sc'?
  3. GCN and DS: dd/ds, or g/d?
 

Athaway

RΞOL
Site Supporter
Founding Member
use the abbrevation of the said game and add SNES/64/GBA/GCN/DS/Wii/7/MKT (or Tour) GG, b will just cause too many problems and too many dumb arguments over abbreviations in the future
 

Italic

Member
Founding Member
honestly the thing I'm most surprised about in this thread is that people use dRaR for snesbow which is horrific can the MKC mods ban that abbreviation in the future
 

Jazzy

8va ~ Going the octave higher
Staff member
Administrator
Amplify Staff
Site Supporter
Founding Member
idk according to amber it's a real thing and I don't want it

RaR is from MKSC, not SMK.

Personally I've never used it, but there's a valid argument:

MK64 did not keep RR while making Royal Raceway RRy as it is. It also made Rainbow Road RRd.

And so following that pattern it is 100% fair to make GBA Rainbow Road "RaR" while Ribbon Road is "RiR".

However this has never been a thing for SNES Rainbow Road. That one has always been just RR.
 

Rookie

Member
Staff member
Administrator
Media Staff
Founding Member
imo, I agree with Amber that we should leave the original 48 completely alone if at all possible. I also think we should be steady with all prior abbreviations the PP have used, because that'll keep things as simple as possible in the long term.

I also believe we should use b prefixes over Nato's suggestion, for "official use". I have no issue if people just want to say "go GCN BC" and I think that's probably even the best for casual use in wars or lounge. But as far as things like official abbreviations go, especially with bots and all of that, I think having a short code name is still probably preferred, regardless of how long it's used. It just feels weird to switch the whole system to like DS SR, because we already have abbreviations for the older 48.

rRRd and rRRy are examples of the steadiness mentioned, they were used in the same game.

- dRR can stay SNES RR. We're all used to this, and it was the only original DLC Rainbow Road.
- Ribbon Road ironically was never abbreviated RR. On MKSC, it was RiR. dRiR feels right, if anything.
- I would advise that likewise, if GBA Rainbow Road comes back, we label it bRaR. This was also an original distinction used in MKSC because of Ribbon
- rRRd can remain also as an original 48.
- Choco Mountain and Coconut Mall have distinct names. I almost wanted to do bCM1 and bCM2 like MKDS did with the retro LCs, and this could work because of Choco being chronologically first and earlier in the cup order. But I actually am against it now, because it's not intuitive to new players.

I really like bCMo and bCMa over the other options, but there are some drawbacks down the road. They look so much more clean than tHe oNeS tHaT lOoK lIkE tHiS. If one is shorter than the other, it makes the distinction weirder and creates favoritism for one of them I feel like too. So I'd say:

bCMo & bCMa > bChM & bCM or bChM & bCoM

but, we'll run into some conflict later on this.

The bigger question becomes what happens if the later Rainbow Roads enter the discussion. I really don't like the idea of having 2 characters as a suffix also. That makes it weird with MK64, but RR64 is covered for already and Choco Mountain could technically be covered by bCMo.

Whether or not we pre-emptively name things is going to be a big dispute. Like for instance, if SNES Bowser Castle 1 comes back, are we fine with calling it bBC1 knowing that GBA BC1 could also come back in a later pack? Should we name it bBC1s ahead of time? Well, I think we shouldn't, because I don't think we should make things more complicated than they have to be. That's part of the point of this system, it's simple.

However, if GBA BC1 were to come back multiple waves later, I think we should rename both. This is because people entering the scene would really have no understanding why one would be bBC1 and not the other and may get them confused. I know this could get really awkward if like, one is in wave 2 and one comes out over a year in wave 6. But I still think these tracks are new enough that we could just apply an update if needed. It's not like we don't know which tracks are at risk either.

The issue with bCMo and bCMa are as follows. Say we get N64 Sherbet Land in pack 2, and name it bSL. This is fine. But maybe in pack 4, they bring back GBA Snow Land. Like our pack 1 tracks, they still have differing names, but the 2nd word is still Land, so we wouldn't be able to distinguish them in the same style. You'd have to use like bShL and bSnL, which would suggest we use bChM and bCoM. I think these all look gross.

As if this problem couldn't get any worse, this isn't a solution either. Because then you get Shy Guy Beach and Shy Guy Bazaar, where the first words are the same and the last one differs. Surely, this would have to be bSGBa and bSGBe. This problem is just getting out of hand at this point.

I think we should probably do the following: use a suffix system based on origin game, and only apply it when we have to. This may mean updating some of the Booster Tracks as time passes if a conflict arises.

The best suffixes are probably the ones Jazzy brought up. Here's the full list of possibilities.

SNES BC1 - bBC1 or bBC1s
SNES BC2 - bBC2 or bBC2s
SNES BC3 - bBC3 or bBC3s
Choco Mountain - bCM64
N64 Wario - bWS or bWS64
N64 Sherbet - bSL or bSL64
N64 Castle - bBC or bBC64
GBA SGB - bSGB or bSGBa
GBA BC1 - bBC1 or bBC1a (you know the rest)
Snow Land - bSL or bSLa
GBA Luigi - bLC or bLCa
GBA Rainbow - just bRaR tbh
GCN Luigi - bLC or bLCg
GCN Waluigi - bWS or bWSg
GCN Castle - bBC or bBCg
GCN Rainbow - bRR or bRRg

Y'all get the idea now. Suffixes for the following:

MKDS - d
MKWii - w
MK7 - 7
MKTour - t

Other important ones I think:

GCN Mario Circuit - bMaC
GCN Mushroom City - bMuC

but maybe only if they're not the only bMC. For GBA RR, bRaR makes sense I think because Ribbon is in the game already. I would probably just go straight to bMuC though for Mushroom City since it's never been used as MC. GCN MC was rMC in mkw.

We could also just do case by case. It may be more complicated, but I think it could work if we all just agree. I do like bCMo and bCMa more because I hate the 64 suffix being 2 letters, tbh. (i pronounce them bee cee moe and bee cee mah btw, and you can't stop me)

Really, I don't know. There's probably too many avenues to deal with. The thing I would consider is that even after pack 1 we all understand that we may want to be flexible based on what happens in later packs and apply fixes if needed. I would probably start with bCMo and bCMa with consideration that we may change things down the road.

The only 2 things I very much agree with though:

- leave og 48 alone
- only do suffixes if we literally have to in order to distinguish them

edit: oh yeah, another stupid note. We may get bailed out on Banshee Boardwalk and Berlin. This is because they never released a BB, only a BB2, in MKTour. But Tokyo Blur appears to be a hybrid, so we may just get a "Berlin Byways". There's only one current version of it though, so it's hard to say.
 
Last edited:

Jetliner

_dx
Site Supporter
I feel like we have yet to also consider the Japanese perspective, since they seem to get by just fine without the prefixes.

tracks.png


I made this image a while ago in my early attempts to communicate with Japanese (rip lounge 6v6), and the shortnaming is honestly quite sustainable.

Notable to me:
Mario Circuits: 新マリサ (new mario circuit), and for rMC you can literally write "GBA"
Rainbow Roads: 新虹 (new rainbow), 64虹, and SFC虹 (similarly, if I write "SFC" they know what to pick, even though DP3 exists there is never any question about this)

This also means I think they'll be shifting to 新スカガ (new sky garden) now that GBA Sky Garden is coming around.

Which yes, abbreviating by system is both already a thing, and also a potential point of confusion, thanks to SFC/SNES.

As for my interests, I really hope we can keep things concise.
unknown.png

Hopefully it's self explanatory the abbreviations >5 characters or with spaces will get to be quite messy for the purposes of maintaining records.

My other idea I had, though almost certainly won't pass, was to handle the abbreviations by Wave. 1PP, 1TC, [the same debate on Coco and Choco], etc. If the cups are arranged as a second page of 12 cups, with each wave being a column (follows precedent set by the 8u DLC), then using the Wave number as prefix can help quickly figure out where on the page the track you are looking for is. It also means once the abbreviations are set, there cannot be later conflict because everything we have yet to find out is a part of new waves anyway.
unknown.png

After 2023, the number abbreviations would not make much sense to someone showing up new to the scene at that point.
 

Lee

😎
Site Supporter
Don’t touch the existing 48, use the original abbreviations for boosters, distinguish if necessary with console prefix/suffix and tolerate included whitespace for bot purposes.

Wii CM and CM64 to me is fine for example, using SR without the DS prefix is also fine. Doesn’t bother me that this is a little inconsistent but it gives the best balance between being concise and recognisable/distinguishable, and if a future track gets announced that causes a conflict then we can add the prefix/suffix of the track(s) in question (if Delfino Square gets added then we don’t touch Dolphin Shoals and just refer to Delfino as dsds)

Personal preference would be to stick numbers (64,7) on the end and console names before. Just don’t use w to abbreviate the Wii tracks, use the full name. Same applies to all consoles.

I don’t think we have to try to put the provisions in by attempting to solve for every conflicting case immediately. Appending the console to the abbreviation when required wouldn’t take much adjustment at all
 
Last edited:

Jazzy

8va ~ Going the octave higher
Staff member
Administrator
Amplify Staff
Site Supporter
Founding Member
Notable to me:
Mario Circuits: 新マリサ (new mario circuit), and for rMC you can literally write "GBA"
Rainbow Roads: 新虹 (new rainbow), 64虹, and SFC虹 (similarly, if I write "SFC" they know what to pick, even though DP3 exists there is never any question about this)
Is this their pronouncations (in call), or how they actually type it? I believe it to be the former. In that case, we shouldn't worry about how they say it, it's like we say "dry dry" or "bone dry", yet the abbreviations are separate and untouched.

Hopefully it's self explanatory the abbreviations >5 characters or with spaces will get to be quite messy for the purposes of maintaining records.
The max we would have is 5. most would be 4 or less.

bCM64 is 5. typing CM64 should be acceptable for sure in any chat, bot, etc. As for making a table on MKL for instance, it's good for the b's to line up.

bCMw is 4

If we get, for example, GBA BC1 and SNES BC1:

bBC1a and bBC1s (both 5, again the max).

generally they will be 3-4:

bPP, bTC, bTB, bSR, bSG, bNH are all 3.

Don’t touch the existing 48, use the original abbreviations for boosters, distinguish if necessary with console prefix/suffix and tolerate included whitespace for bot purposes.
Agree on don't touch originals, use the original abbreviations, and suffix.

Whitespace may not always be practical depending on the bot, if it can be confused with another parameter and they have to be separated by spaces. It's up to the developer imo.

We should ONLY use suffixes in case of a conflict. I define a conflict as tracks from 2 different games with the same abbreviation as used in the original games.

  • GCN MaC and MuC are NOT a conflict (we have resolved this with MKDD)
  • GCN MaC and 3DS MC are NOT a conflict (the former should default to bMaC because it is as it was originally, we can use bMC for the latter, even if it sucks, but it's not very much different from dRR an rRRd, just they are both b)
  • GCN BC and 3DS BC ARE a conflict (bBCg and bBC7)
  • GBA SL and N64 SL ARE a conflict (same original abbreviations, so we do bSLa and bSL64)
It's worth mentioning if we get a confict in a later wave that affects a previous wave, we may decide to change the previous one retroactively to avoid confusion.

For example:

Wave 2: GBA BC2 (bBC2)
Wave 3: SNES BC2 ---- this would become bBC2s, then we have to decide to rename GBA to bBC2a retroactively. I personally would.


Ultimately, I think this solution is best because it is consistent and determinate (no ambiguities what to make each track once we get it). We had this problem with CM's already (ChM, CMo, CMt??) Here we have a system that we can apply and the only question is if we get a retroactive conflict, but we don't necessarily have to.

We also get the following advantages:

  • All start with 'b'
  • All maintain their original abbreviations with a 'b' prefix and maybe a suffix
  • At most 5 characters including the 'b', never any spaces
We can be flexible with bots (CM64 and bCM64 should be valid)


I would not use 'wii' instead of 'w'.

bCMw is 4.
bCMwii is 6 and CMwii is 5.

It's not massive, BUT it's best to be consistent with single letter suffixes (64 is the only two-character suffix but it's the most intuitive for MK64 so I'll let it slide).

I've kind of repeated myself here, I'm just trying to explain what I think about what others have said.
 
Top