Opinions for the Betterment of the Community

Aran

Member
Media Staff
#1
Wassup everyone, I have decided to talk a bit about the state of the community as I have seen it over the past year or so and what I think we as a whole community and the staff of Mario Kart Central can do better going forwards.

The first thing I want to say as a preface to this post is simply to note the progress of the community. For the most part, we have seen a downwards trend in public “toxic” behavior and harassment from when I first joined the community. Although there is still drama and arguments, it is less so than what it once was and seems to occur only between individuals rather than teams now. Shit-talk still exists, but this is natural in any competitive community, and most well-respected members of the community know where to draw a line. I believe for the most part this community has become more welcoming, open, and self-aware than at the start of MKC. The site has been growing steadily, and we should always be trying to make our competitive environment the best possible. We should strive to do this not only for the new players but also for veterans. The betterment of the community and of this site benefits everyone, from those who love the staff to those who resent them. I appreciate the work that any member of the community has done to help contribute to this better environment.



I do not write this post for clout or to be preachy, rather for two reasons alone: I’m bored as hell, and I genuinely care for this haphazard mix of people that I have grown accustomed to being a part of now and that we call a community. In the past I’ve taken two mindsets: apathy and resentment. I either didn’t care about the community, or the only time I cared was to shit on the community. I will admit, I’m not the most mature guy in the world. I have made a lot of toxic jokes and said a lot of annoying things in the past, but that doesn’t discount from the fact that without this community I would not have even had a place to make those jokes. I’m not a no-life, I have my own things to focus on and attend to “irl”, but MKC has offered up a second home and connected me to a friend group that I chill with on a day-to-day basis. If just a few sentences from this wall of boring ass text can contribute to some of the players from this community having a better day, or even just a productive discussion in the comments, then this post will have served its purpose. Now, with that said, I can get into a few of the recent opinions I’ve taken up and want to share.



Opinion One: The Gabe situation should be adressed and something needs to change. Whether it be a ban or a warning to those involved I don't know, but I think we can common sense agree what is taking place right now surrounding Gabe is not healthy.

Reasoning: I do not suggest this as a joke, and I do not write this as a personal attack against Gabe. I think what I suggest would not only be better for the community but also better for Gabe. I do not think this forum is the best place to write this, but someone needs to say it. I think we as a community for too long have been blind to the harmful impacts of retaining Gabe in this community. Although I’m sure we all want to be nice and have the community be accepting of those with mental illnesses, Gabe is not only harming the community by his presence, but from what I’ve seen he is also harming himself. These are two bold and possibly wrong claims to make, but I believe it is the case. At the start, I joined in with everyone else. I joked around with Gabe and trolled him from time to time. It was funny for a bit, but this was about a year or more ago. I could not see anything else about it. Now, with added perspective, this whole situation has been and still is very messed up.

From what I can tell, Gabe has very serious mental issues that disallow him from perceiving situations normally. It is not up to me to talk about his problems, but the situation surrounding him has gone on for far too long and something needs to change. I am sick of opening MKC-general to see Gabe saying something outlandish much to the chagrin of less-aware members of the community. All it takes is a few scrolls down on the “MK8DX” quotes twitter to find some of the recent “funny” antics that have arisen from Gabe’s lack of self-control. This has happened in many servers, and it is not funny at all. In fact, the jokes are messed up and don’t not represent this community very well. Not only do the jokes and “bullies” surrounding Gabe harm him and the community in general, but Gabe also harms himself and the community. A few times I have seen Gabe go “black pfp mode” and say dark or suicidal things in MKC related servers. Although this can be written off as just a phase, it is directly caused by his interactions with the community. As harmless as all these things surrounding Gabe might seem, it is NOT harmless. At the very least the jokes make the community look bad, at the worst Gabe being here is harming his already impaired mind. I would not wish that on anyone. It is not his fault that he has these issues, but we can do something to stop him from having these negative interactions within the community. He needs to be getting therapy, not threatening suicide over an online video game or saying crazy things because someone who is being a bad influence thinks its “funny”. It is for this reason that I call for Gabe to be banned from MKC or at least for a discussion to take place on how we can avoid the negative impacts that are so publicly visable. I can in no way just accept that all of this is still going on.



Opinion Two: Staff application, acceptance, and denial processes can be done better.

Reasoning: I really don’t want to come across as a know it all, because I am not staff nor do I know any of the inner workings of these processes. As someone on the outside looking in however, I have a few thoughts that I think could make things a little better. First, I feel as if some staff roles could have “try-outs” as part of the application process, specifically media staff and maybe site moderators. These are the two staff groups who in my opinion have the most impact on the community whether it be moderators keeping order in the community and helping new players settle in or whether it be casters, GFX designers and writers who use their art to entertain the community, motivate others, and appeal to those who are not yet fully integrated into the community. I want to say briefly that I have no issues with any staff choices to my knowledge, all of this is just general suggestions to make the process better (In my opinion of course). Barring the implementation of a sort of “new/trial/rookie” moderator role becoming a thing for those fresh faces who don the red name, I don’t think the idea of a try-out in this position makes a whole ton of sense, but it might be worth considering.

I think try-outs would become much more relevant when it comes to media staff positions. I know that for GFX applications samples of work were required, but in my opinion if a new GFX slot ever opens up, there should be a competition for the spot. I think every GFX applicant should be asked to make an MKU banner for a sample team, and maybe design their own tournament banner for a sample tournament name. I think an issue here might be that not many qualified GFX artists apply when the role becomes available, but competition always increases the quality of the work and pushes the best artist forwards. With casters, before they cast actual matches, I feel as if they should have a practice/try-out cast or two whether it be off or on-air. This would allow for new casting talent to be found or developed and for those who might be casting primetime or a big tournament one day to be told where they can improve whether it be internet, mic quality, or commentary quality.

As for writers, maybe a sample work could be asked for. For instance, asking for everyone to describe a match-up between two sample teams. This would also build on the idea that having a merit-based competition would push the best candidates forward. Obviously this whole idea is null and void if not many people apply for these positions, but I feel even if only four people apply for one of these positions, the try-out concept could help reveal which candidate is best or at the very least provide helpful feedback for those who do not get accepted. This brings me to my next opinion.

Staff applications should be actively denied with a well-thought out reason. I don’t think with MKU staff that this is needed, but in general with things run by MKC, I believe it would be nice to offer up feedback to anyone who is denied for a position. I know that the staff probably don’t want to hurt feelings and that some applications might be very shallow or made by those unqualified. I still feel like giving any sort of feedback would contribute to making it feel more like an application process than just ignoring those who applied apart from those who make it in. For those who are unqualified, tell them that, for those who are viewed by staff as “toxic”, tell them that, and if there was simply a better candidate, tell them that too. I’ve seen several people say, “I wrote a long application and I didn’t get in and I don’t know why”. If someone on the staff, no matter who, knew the reasoning for the selections made and those that were passed over, they could offer a bit of helpful feedback to each applicant. This could provide either closure or motivation for those who seriously cared about applying for a position. It wouldn’t take a ton of time and yet it should hopefully make the process more beneficial for those who don’t make it, offering some places to improve at the very least.

I fully expect there to be relevant and decent counter-points to what I’ve said here. From the way I see it, these things would make the application process a little “better”. That is only my opinion though, I’m open for discussion.



Opinion Three: I think it would be cool to have “Team of the Month” articles, item showcases, and other fun things written by the newly founded MKC news writing staff.

Reasoning: Too often I find myself in the position of wanting to read something on this site and realizing that there are no new interesting things to delve into. I know most people have lives to live and would rather play wars or chat on discord rather than post or read long posts like this on MKC, but some fun weekly articles could bring some fresh entertainment and appeal to logging on to the site. The reason why I think a “Team of the Month” article would be a solid idea would is because as of today we have a whole lot more teams than we did in the past. Giving a spotlight to teams new and old that really embody what it is to be a team each month would encourage teams to develop their own identity, improve, and become a family. For instance, one month there could be a writeup about how DY beat the odds to win D2 and what makes them unique as a team. Then for the next month we could read about 8vb and their experiences as a new team in the community and what they are doing to grow and improve. It could be any team in the community, staff would choose, but I just chose names that I would personally like to read about and would showcase positive things in the community. I chose DY and 8vb as examples because ideally I think people would want to read about a wide spread of high and low division teams. DY has been the latest popoff team and I know 8vb pretty well, they have been grinding hard since coming recently to the community. These two and many other teams that could be featured would showcase many different teams at all levels and stages of life and provide hopefully intresting shoutouts and reads for the community.

I think a weekly/bi-weekly rotation of fun pieces about aspects of the game or community would be a great way to give new players insight into the game or offer up entertainment to all types of people in the community. I mentioned item showcases, but obviously there are many other solid ideas to be thought of. The reason I mention item showcases is because this could hit the best of both worlds. The JPGiven’er analysis of golden usage or star spots for instance is very appealing to new and old players, so what if someone took the time to talk about how to use the hated boomerang or fire-flower? If done right, ideas like this could provide info to new players and reinforce the concepts of veterans while also being a fun read. I really think the MKC news section could become a hotspot of exciting Mario Kart related writing that the community could enjoy.



Opinion Four: New players are learning things the wrong way in this community.

Reasoning: I don’t want to be a broken record, which is what most of us who have been trying to stop the trend of teams who only choose to war teams close to them, so I will not mention anything related to that topic as much as possible. However, I think it is worth noting that from what I’ve seen, new players are learning many things the wrong way when they start their journeys as players in this community. Obviously the first thing new players are told when they enter the community is to start off in a low division team, this is the correct thing to do of course. Sometimes though, I look at the low division community and really wonder what exactly a new player will learn when they join these teams. I feel like too many low division teams have wound up with players who are “better” than everyone else on the team, play for a season or two, then dip. Along the way these players could be saints, but some are toxic, and I’ve seen/heard about too many instances of harmful teammate-flaming occurring in low division teams that new players are always told they should start off in. I’m trying to think of how it must be to be a new player in today’s environment.

If you join a new team, chances are that team will have either a better “carry” or a high division ally playing. You will probably do bad at the start, and that “carry” might flame you for being bad whether it be to your face or behind your back. Regardless, you might not learn much if you do bad other than that you “need to improve” whatever that means. Being a new player, you might even see many of the “better” players on your team leave to go to “good” teams over time. I wonder if the concept making a team of loyal and committed players and grinding up together through losses and wins even exists anymore outside from the one odd team. Maybe I’m missing the forest for the trees but looking at the state of most of the lower division teams operate and how their “good” players often come and go every season until the team dies makes me worry for what exactly newer players learn from the teams they join and if anything good can come from an experience in a team that operates like that. I guess what I’d say is that if you’re a low division team or any division team for that matter, remember that loyalty and the will to improve matters so much more than an immediate skill boost, and that anyone who would unironically say something against their teammates and not think its wrong is not worth having around. The long term solution to losing isn’t to recruit better players, play against worse or “less lucky” teams, or to dip your team to join a “better” team. The solution is to accept the flaws your team makes and work together to fix them.



Opinion Five: Lounge flaming can go too far and toxic people should not be allowed to get away with repeatedly insulting others in a hurtful manner and /or making awful jokes.

Reasoning: As we have seen with many cases in the past, there is a very fine line between what is harassment, what is a joke, and what is too much. I do not want to advocate for the micromanagement of the community, but I do want to state my opinion on what I have seen, especially related to lower tiers of lounge or the lower tiers of the community in general. Smack-talk is common in any game, I’m not here to argue against that, but we have to remember that this is just a game. The point of this community is to bring people together to have fun and try to progress the competitive scene forward. Last I checked, the awful flaming going on by certain individuals at lower tiers does neither of this. All it does is steer new players way and make them not want to play as much. At higher tiers this still occurs, but most of it is mostly jokes or the players have gotten used to it from the same circle of people. Sadly, when it comes to lower tier players who think they are much better than newer or less experienced players who might be their teammates or those they play against, the “jokes” very often go too far. At that point it isn’t even jokes, it’s just full on mean-spirited flaming. No one wants to be called “free” or “shit” by some person just because they haven’t played the game as much and might score bad in lounge or in a war. I think that the rampant disrespect of other human beings based solely on an arbitrary gameplay standard that I’ve witnessed is not only annoying, but is immature, cringe, and stupid. I can’t expect a whole lot to be done about this, but I think that as a whole community we should be able to step up and not tolerate the kinds of serious player shaming that can go unseen in the lower divisions of lounge or the community in general. Just in general, I think a good amount of people could be reminded that pure toxicity isn’t funny.













I know that I am not the best person to talk on any of these matters probably, but I have no issue voicing my opinion and starting a discussion regardless. I appreciate anyone who took the time to read my thoughts, I realize that you probably don’t have much reason to care at all. If you agree drop a like or a comment and if you disagree with any of the points I made feel free to comment below as well. I would love to know others opinions on some of these matters.
Also there is probably a large amount of typos since I typed this relatively quickly and its quite late, if you notice anything super bad let me know.



Thanks again for reading,

Aran.
 
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#2
Read through it and it was very good, I liked a lot of your opinions.
#1 I 100% see your Gabe opinion. Whether agree I’m still thinking about it. He does harm the community, any new member who opens mkc and sees him talking about stuff related to sex and other people laughing at it, the new member will immediately be turned off. If the future of mkc contains sponsors, they can walk into our public server and really be turned off by the type of conversations taking place. I’m definitely not the best person to talk about this but it is an important point. Gabe harms our general chats and kinda brings out the toxicity we do have as a community to the forefront. I don’t know if he should be banned because he doesn’t really deserve one by MKC rules, but there’s obvious reasons and pros in doing so.

#2 I liked opinion 3, I think it’s what we need to get the mid and lower divs more exposure.

#3 on opinion 4, I think it’s a select few (mostly English) teams that recruit whoever and whatever without care. There definitely are a few teams that off the top of my head that have toxic leaders who recruit whoever and bully their members. However, I think it is very worth noting that the ally-dependability that was mentioned by Teeples (I think?) in your other post ties more into this. I see more or less the same players allying nonstop for these low div teams, and I think the reason for this is more for indivs. I think the indiv mindset is ruining the development of the actual players of the team, and these teams are learning from the wrong people. What I think is lower div teams should lower the visibility of allies in their server and make them significantly less influential. Note: a 5 ally d15 team

I want to put a positive spin on it, not all high div carries are toxic, indiv hungry. I benefitted very much from having Leon carry Twisted Parallels in season 8. Even though we got carried, we definitely were improved thanks to his dedication to us as teammates.

#4: opinion 5 is probably the most important to me. 150 lounge is bad but it is a lot of work to do to maintain it stays clean. However I think whats worse is the state of 200 lounge. Not only is it a breeding ground for gabe ridicule, there are like 16 pages of hard Rs in there. 200 is attracting many new members, it can be considered more exciting than 150 and new members there can be really turned off by the behavior of players in that server.

#5: I think we should also address the ego of certain high div players. I’m talking about the hate mkc got for casting d6. It does not kill you to have something not D1 played in a certain week. It is really embarrassing that some of our best players have to act like this because they don’t want to see a little wiggle drifting or improper spacing.

anyways there’s my response, it’s like 5 am so please excuse any bad grammar or bad englisf
 

Tay

Penguins are cute
Site Supporter
Founding Member
#4
I enjoy these threads, I like reading what opinions different people have on different topics involving the community. I respect all of your opinions that are written here, some I agree with and some I disagree. I may as well write what I have to say about these.

#1. Gabe being banned from MKC.
I do not think this is the way to go, nor do I think that this is the place to be talking about him and his situation. I will say something that entails more of a general situation. If there are players who are mentally ill, we shouldn't just negate them from the community. We should try to help them as much as we can and stop making fun of them / meme-ing them just because they do "stupid" stuff. If there are players who are hurting themselves, we have to acknowledge it and try to help them out as much. Expelling someone from a community leaves a grey area on who gets banned and who doesn't solely due to a mental illness.

#2. Staff Apps.
I can agree with the stuff you said about feedback and denying an application. Constructive feedback given to the people who get denied can help them improve as a person and help them move forward. If people view it as harsh if they get called toxic or stuff by the staff, then they're just not looking with an open mind. Just because someone is toxic now does not mean they can't change. As someone who has been on staff teams, when choosing applicants, just because the post is long doesn't necessarily mean that the person is the proper person for the job. Most of the time, it doesn't really matter that much in the actual application, but it matters how they are within the community. Of course, the applications themselves are good since they can provide a lot of information about the person that you didn't know about, so they can be useful, but the length of the application won't make it a better application. Nobody really likes to read a long post unless it's necessary information.

The tryouts for GFX thing seems kinda interesting though.

#3. Articles / News Writing.
Yeah, any sort of writing / articles are extremely cool to read. It's not really something I've seen much within communities and I think they are nice changes. I don't think there are really any negative impacts from them unless controversial opinions are posted on them forcing ideas down on people. But yeah, I'm down to read any of these articles.

#4. New players learning the incorrect way into the community.
This is an interesting read and I thought you brought up some good points about the lower level teams, but it always depends on the players themselves. From what I've seen, high level allies who play for lower teams won't really care if they get anchored in an ally scrim considering it's not for their main team. They won't talk bad about the lower / newer players during those; however, I guess the caries might since it's their main team.
I do think that the newer players should start at the lower level of play. I do think that they should search lower tier teams to play with. A newer player simply can't join a top tier team unless they're at the standard of a high level play. That rarely happens, if anything 99% of the time, the newer players won't be experience at the game. They have to start from the ground up and learn the basics. I will agree that the higher level players will be more beneficial for the newer players to learn from, but I don't think the lower level players will be able to mix in with the higher level players until they understand the basics. So, it's kinda a dilemma I guess.
One solution I can think of would be a hub for newer players to join so they can learn the mechanics of the game from higher level players. The problem with that is that it means that some of the higher level players will have to take their own time out to help people which can only really help and there will continuously be more new players joining the scene. We have one of these hubs for MKWii players trying to move into the MK8DX Community and the game itself. Something like that could help the lower level players, but it all depends on the player themselves whether they want to improve or not. If they don't want to then there's not really much of a problem with the new players starting at a lower level.

#5. Toxicity in lounge.
Honestly, I don't think I've seen much of this, at least compared to the mkw lounge. I understand people don't want to be called free or shit but honestly, it's not really that bad of an insult and quite shallow from the person saying it. Something that the mkw lounge has is a restriction policy. Players who are continuously toxic towards members of the community within lounge get "restricted". This means that the player can only say mogi bot commands that lets them join a mogi or drop and vote for a specific format. If something like this gets added to 8dx lounge then I think it'll just reduce the toxicity around.
 

Aran

Member
Media Staff
#5
A good few people have brought up my thoughts I wrote on Gabe, specifically asking that he be banned from the community. I agree that this is outright a gray area and most likely a “bad” solution to the problem. However, the main reason I wrote this at all was not for Gabe to get banned, rather for the situation to be brought up at all in the public eye. I tried to focus a good bit on those people who make fun of Gabe or encourage him to act “funny”, but I feel as if most of the main focus on the issue was lost by originally stating that I wanted a ban for Gabe. I think everyone can agree that what is occurring in public chats revolving around Gabe is not a very healthy thing for the community and it does need to stop. If that means my original misguided post can still educate people on this issue, I have no problem with the fact that I posted it. We need to stop the memes on Gabe if we are going to have him be a part of this community. He is learning the wrong things on how to act from a certain group of people who interact with him. It is not our place to talk about his issues perhaps, but we can talk about our own and how some of us our encouraging the wrong behavior. Regardless of right or wrong, someone needed to bring attention to this situation aside from just dms. Because currently, its a bad look for all of us that the Gabe "jokes" continue on.

All of what I've said is just my opinion though, I apologize if anyone has been offended by my choice to have this dialogue.
 
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Rookie

Member
Staff member
Administrator
AC Staff
Media Staff
Founding Member
#6
I appreciate the post, and want to address some of these ideas.

Point 1 - I disagree, because we cannot ban someone if they haven't done anything banworthy. If I'm being completely realistic, I don't actually have an idea with how to properly handle this scenario. It's abnormal. I think we obviously have to be better, and we should take a simple approach here.

Community leaders (not just team leaders, but active people who believe in the vision of the site, community, and genuinely want what's best) need to step up and call this behavior out. I don't care if you're a D9 player calling out a D1 player, if the substance of your argument (and it will be, calling out bullying), then you have every valid reason in the world to do so.

A very easy step is that we can do to start now is talking about @INeedMMR, because the person who runs that account knows we know who he is, and he knows we've got to be better. So I'll personally link him this thread if he doesn't find it already and personally demand that all posts relating to Gabe stop, and I also think the prior ones should be deleted. If we're going to solve a problem with maybe an unknown solution, I think this is the only way to start.

Point 2 - It's something I haven't really thought to do actually, but I agree. I know that before we added Tyler to EO he wasn't sure if we were ignoring his app or not, and I realize now that's an issue. I think as long as we're doing a good enough job, people will be able to cope with not being selected. I'll try to see it through that this goes better. In the past lots of times it's just been a conclusion that people didn't make the cut if we announce new staff and they don't make it, but I guess addressing issues or just being honest will probably help people know that we are at least listening to every app.

Point 3 - I like this idea. I'd expect a lot of new updates on writers this week, and this is an idea I didn't have. I love it, it creates endless content.

Gonna do point 4 & 5 together.

I think a big issue comes from the game itself being RNG based. It creates an issue where lots of people don't want to take accountability for what happens, and a lot of people learn the wrong way by refusing to consider their actions. I'm far from the best player but as someone who is simply Gold in lounge, I can promise you that at the very least every single Silver / Bronze / Iron player aren't there because of bad luck. If I were to be able to watch that footage, I could almost certainly identify the problem in every race. But players would rather blame luck than figuring out what went wrong, and I think these are the type of players who think the way to improve their teams is to just try to stack them as much as possible, because these are the kinds of players who don't even try to develop themselves as players. Development is so critical. If you watch the rookie season of any all time great athlete, you'll notice that they're generally not close to being fully developed. LeBron wasn't an Allstar in his rookie season. Peyton Manning went 3-13 his rookie year in the NFL. People need to maximize their potential. This kind of proactive mindset being more widespread across the community I believe would actually decrease lounge toxicity too. Instead of blaming others, people may consider what they could've done different.

I don't think we can ever fully solve toxicity on the internet, but we've come a long way I want to say. We just need to continue promoting the right values for new members of the community as time passes. Could always mute people more frequently too instead of just straight up going to bans (which often come across as overkill)
 

Aran

Member
Media Staff
#7
I appreciate the post, and want to address some of these ideas.

Point 1 - I disagree, because we cannot ban someone if they haven't done anything banworthy. If I'm being completely realistic, I don't actually have an idea with how to properly handle this scenario. It's abnormal. I think we obviously have to be better, and we should take a simple approach here.

Community leaders (not just team leaders, but active people who believe in the vision of the site, community, and genuinely want what's best) need to step up and call this behavior out. I don't care if you're a D9 player calling out a D1 player, if the substance of your argument (and it will be, calling out bullying), then you have every valid reason in the world to do so.

A very easy step is that we can do to start now is talking about @INeedMMR, because the person who runs that account knows we know who he is, and he knows we've got to be better. So I'll personally link him this thread if he doesn't find it already and personally demand that all posts relating to Gabe stop, and I also think the prior ones should be deleted. If we're going to solve a problem with maybe an unknown solution, I think this is the only way to start.
I agree with everyone's disagreement here. Yes, Gabe has done nothing ban-worthy and I was wrong to call for that in this post. Still, when I see things he says that, to those who do not know him, would be very disturbing, and when I see the only two common reactions being "LOOOOOOOL" or "ok Gabe", I felt like the situation was worth bringing up. Yes, even on a public forum. I am not going to shy from calling someone or a group of people out if I think the actions surrounding this person/persons are detrimental to the community and have been mainly unaddressed. I agree that we need to step up and call out not only those who turn Gabe into a joke or manipulate him for comedic purposes, but I also believe when Gabe says things that are wrong on his own he should receive warnings as well. I want to apologize for calling for his ban, I simply wanted to bring attention to this issue which I felt was not getting proper attention as it has been allowed to carry on for too long in my eyes.

I hope that those who read this can look past my original short-sightedness and look at this whole situation as a whole. If you see a situation where Gabe or someone around Gabe is trying to make some inappropriate joke or comment, step up and call it out. I am sure if we stop feeding into this then the amount of "funny" things Gabe says will decrease, at least in public servers.


I knew the first topic was going to be highly controversial before I posted this, so I also hope that one can look past this and on to the other ideas I had which I feel are less edgy. I'm not a bad person and I did not mean to mindlessly attack Gabe, rather the point of including that was to promote public dialogue about the issue so we can work as a community to try to improve the situation.
 

Nato

Member
Staff member
Administrator
Site Supporter
Founding Member
#8
I mean it says alot when someone can DM someone something or post something on twitter towards someone and take a ban, but if something bad is done in lounge, they're simply muted for some time, idk why there's inconsistency in this.

Also theres alot of inconsistency in general, but that's for another conversation thats not better to be said here on the forum
 
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